Modern Balancing Act Ep 3: Sharing the load - Tackling the double duties of a working mom by Amanda Lau

[0:32] Introducing the guest, Amanda Lau

[1:04] How she explains her job to her son

[2:02] Working in a fast-paced tech industry

[3:11] Important things to consider when setting your goals

[5:07] Hesitations about daycare centers

[7:53] Frustrations as a parent in tech

[9:05] Discipline styles on children

[13:32] Staying resilient during the pandemic

[14:26] How Workato helps in achieving work-life balance

[17:38] Connect with Amanda Lau

TRANSCRIPT

 [Qin En 0:00]

 Hi, I am Qin En. And this is the Parents in Tech podcast.

This is a special collaboration series with Workato, the leading enterprise automation platform. I speak to parents at Workato to find out how they create work, life integration and balance their career ambitions with family aspirations.

This is a special collaboration CVS with Workato, the leading enterprise automation platform. I speak to parents at Workato to find out how they create work. Life integration. And balance their career ambitions with family aspirations.

In this episode, I speak with Amanda, Campus Recruiting Program Manager at Workato. Amanda is mother to two children, aged four and seven.

Hey, Amanda, welcome to the Parents in Tech show. So glad for you to join us today, to begin with, can you tell us a bit more about your family?

[Amanda 0:50]

My family. Okay. So I have two young kids, both boys, seven year old, as well as a three year old. So there's a good four-year gap between both of them.

[Qin En 0:59]

Wonderful. Okay. So for your elder kid, how do you explain your job? 

[Amanda 1:04]

Okay. The attention span is very short. So what I tell him is that my job (inaudible) a job at the end of the day. That's why I'll explain to him. Yeah, simple. But at this point in time, yeah.

[Qin En 1:20]

Wonderful. Okay. So maybe tell me a bit more about where you were when you first welcomed your, your elder kid into the world. And were you already working in tech? Where were you in your career at that point? 

[Amanda 1:32]

Okay. At that point in time, I was not working in the tech industry. I was working more in the shipping industry. Oh, no. Even before that I was actually working in the government sector. Yeah. So support was definitely dead. I mean, when I had my first kid, my, was wonderful. 

[Qin En 1:47]

Got it. And when did the transition to tech happen? 

[Amanda 1:50]

The transition to tech happened last year. It [was] last year. So I wouldn't say this choice was a bit surprising for myself, even for myself. And I do see there's a lot of potential [in] that type of industry. 

[Qin En 2:01]

Got it. How has it been? Right. Because one of the things about tech and I guess also why it's called Parents in Tech, the podcast is I feel like the tech industry moves really quickly. And so the pace of developments are fast and sometimes create additional pressure for parents, right? When you need that time to either work or be with your kids. So yeah. How has it been like for you? 

[Amanda 2:20]

Okay. So I would say for me, the past six months where I joined since I've been here has been wonderful in the sense that I did take what I wanted to do. I take mentors of what kind of objectives or results I want to deliver before the start each quarter. And that is clearly communicated with my bosses so that they know what will be expected out of it. At the same time, no communication has been very open. And if let's say either my kid falls and I need to be away, I tell them. So that kind of helps manage the work expectations from me as well. 

[Qin En 2:49]

Got it. The first thing you mentioned was really interesting about you setting your own quarterly goals. I guess with that in mind, you are also able to plan and kind of prepare what's gonna happen at work. And also what's gonna happen back at home. So talk to us a bit more about how you think about that goal setting, because some people listening to this podcast, I'm sure that that's a good idea, but they might not be sure how to go about doing it. 

[Amanda 3:11]

More importantly, when I set my goals, I think it has to be aligned with what the company's trying to achieve especially in the tech industry, they call the VMT, the vision, mission, as well as targets having that set line, it kind of like helps streamline or what kind of activities will help to drive that and meet that end goal in mind. And also, how do you actually measure? I think that will help lead the foundation in terms of getting where you want to go very clearly, but of course, over time, as you rehash order by quarter, you'll get there eventually, definitely all about, you know, alteration and agility that you need to have in you.

[Qin En 3:49]

 Got it. Got it. Now, when you first joined Workato, which is not too long ago, like, what was it like having to balance between learning on the job also proving yourself while also taking care of your family? Right. Tell me a bit more about what things were like back then. 

[Amanda 04:03] Back then, for me, it helped that both my children are not with me in the daytime. I put them in the full day daycare care center. So that helps. So during the daytime, when I work, I really just channel my energy to working. It also helps me when I plan my schedule of how I want to work around things. Cause I also need to plan and strategize a little bit on what I need to deliver.

So I block out schedules of time, especially in my first quarter, my first couple of months, I block out schedules and I tell myself, okay, within this block of time, what do I wanna achieve? What am I supposed to meet? So that kind of helped me to move and learn. And at the same time deliver quite effectively.

[Qin En 04:43] Got it. Got it. Okay. So both children and full time daycare. I do remember that process of trying to find a daycare center that is quite hassle. Talk to me a bit more about that process for you.

[Amanda 04:57] Okay. So for me, I think I was quite blessed that the full time childcare centers [are] actually quite near. A couple of blocks away from my house. Back then when I had my first child, I was very hesitant for daycare center in infant, infant care. 

[Qin En 05:05] 

Why, why hesitant? 

[Amanda 05:07] 

Yeah. First time mom, you want to control everything. You don't want anyone [to] take care of that child. So I think it took me a while to finally let go. But at the same time, by [the] end, my husband was actually planning, [he] wants to enroll him. So she went to go and talk to the principal first and find out when is the fit to put the child in. Because there is so [much] space, need time, need time to put the child in.

So I knew when was that fit? I need to put him in so it [is] kind [of] like gimme time to work my mindset. This child will not be with me, this child [will] be fully at the daycare care center. So I don't have to worry so much. Yeah. So I think that will be a journey that most parents like you have to go through. Yeah.

[Qin En 05:44]

Yes. But it sounds like there was a very strong partnership, right? Yeah. Because your husband was aware about the hesitations you had, but he was able to kind of balance and compliment that by making the logistical preparations of that. So on the topic, tell me, how do you split the parenting responsibilities between yourself and your husband?

[Amanda 06:01] 

Okay. So my husband is also working in the tech industry. Very hectic for him. Very unpredictable work. So typically I will always ask him, can you like, tell me what is your schedule for the week? Because I prefer planning in advance so that I can also work my schedule. Cause my, for me, I think I'm quite flexible.

I do know my start and end time. So that will help me take over the childcare duties in the evening if I say he's not around to support me. At the same time, I also do have extended family members to help bring my older son back because right now he's in the primary one. So there's an after school care arrangement.

So my parents-in-law were able to help me. And I'm very thankful for the help that they have given so far. Yeah. Besides that arrangement. I think in terms of child rearing, my husband is able to connect [with] them much more better than me emotionally for some reason. 

They fear him, they fear him sometimes, but at the same time, I also know how to sit over to a softer side. Like they also love him as well. So for me, I think my role is more towards like, okay, when, why they bring them to go and play, they were see person. I would bring them [to] go and play. That's the best I can do (inaudible) sit down.

[Qin En 07:08]

That's wonderful. But it's also about understanding each other's strengths between you and your husband and really working on those. So play, tell me what does play look like for you and your family? 

[Amanda 07:20]

Okay. So play for me and my family is to the playground, outdoors. We subscribe to that because healthier they're able to spread it out and it could really run around. We also introduce other spots to them. For example, my older boy is swimming and more recently, he also has some interest in basketball, not that kind of, you know, professional, just playing around, just bouncing the ball. So, the younger child also follows what his brother's doing. So it's, it's easy. It kinda compliments the activities that they want to do.

[Qin En 07:47] 

Yeah. You make it sound too easy. So what's one challenge or one frustration that you had to go to recently as a parent?

[Amanda 07:53]

One challenge and frustration, what caught my older boy at this point because he's transiting from a fully childcare center to primary school environment, there are a lot of new nuances that he needs to adjust to a lot of rules, regulations. How do you actually interact [with] other children who [you] are not familiar with, as compared to when he was in the childcare center, where that group of friends has been looking for these three or four years. So they know their style. For him trying to allay his fears, trying to get him to overcome his insecurity about our new environment and how he plays with his friends.

So a lot of empathy has to be given to him, a lot of acknowledgement that he's facing these kinds of issues is also crucial as well. So as busy, we try not to sideline them, I think, oh, just brush it across. It doesn't help them in that sense. So definitely need to make him face challenges and he starts laying it as where we will quickly sit him down and ask him to task more.

[Qin En 08:46] 

So that gives insight because my next question was gonna be also around the topic of discipline, especially with young kids and boys also, I guess that stereotype is that mischievous. Right? So tell me a bit more about how you and your, so maybe the first question I ask is, was there a difference between how you like to discipline your children between yourself and your husband?

[Amanda 09:05] 

Okay, discipline. Typically, I just leave it to my husband in terms of the style that we will give them a couple warnings. So if that warning does not work too, either believe the traditional method of taking the king up now.

[Qin En 09:18] 

The rotan. 

[Amanda 09:18]

Yes. I don't know how many parents out there will still use it or do they even subscribe to this, but sometimes showing that a little bit will put them in place. 

[00:09:28] 

  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious. Right. Like I, I'm sure there's a lot of resources and kinds of things that you learn about parenting, but it's discipline or beyond. Where do you get your source of parenting information from? 

[Amanda 09:41] 

So my source of parenting information, I do get them from my ex company where there were a lot of parents around where [I] could actually have a conversation with them about their parenting style and they had older childrens. So it's easier amongst my peers. I also do have occasional chats with them and find out, you know, how do they actually cope with it as well? 

[Qin En 09:58] 

Got it, got it. Got it. So maybe looking back at just this journey of being a parent so far, what would you say it's one of the best or most memorable moments you have had? It doesn't have to be big by the way. It can be just something that just stuck with you. Yeah. Tell us more about that special moment. 

[Amanda 10:14] 

Okay. That special moment that's most memorable, when you think that you have done something, right. And they are very happy, you see that joy in your face and you come running into you and just say, thank you. I think that is the most magical moment. You know what happened behind that scene? What happened before? Sometimes you can't remember, but I think it's more about the smile, the joy. Yeah, little actions after that, you know, making, um.

[Qin En 10:39] 

Absolutely, absolutely. But I must also say that's the flip side. And, and so the next question I ask is, you know, at work there's always bad days. There's always things that happen. There are good days and bad days, right. And sometimes, those bad days can be quite a challenge to not bring. That, those feelings back home. Tell me, how is it like for you, right? For some of those moments? 

[Amanda 11:01] 

Yeah. When I had one child, [it] was easier because the journey, the commute to my previous office was quite a distance. So I take that time to wind down and listen [to] the music as well. I do have a focus of time so I can actually go for a quick run before I go back home. So that kind of reset my thinking again. But with my second child, still challenging, I don't have to deny that because I also changed kind, kind of my work environment. Typically it's when I walk to the school, which is like a five, 10 minutes-walk. I do a bit of breathing, breathing exercise down and then like reset my frame of work and pick up my child and then more work to be done. So, yeah, it's more like conditioning, like mental conditioning and then going [to] pick that child up.

[Qin En 11:43] 

Got it. Wonderful. Well, thanks for sharing that. And I'm curious, like for that, did you learn that from any book resource or was that just something that you kind of figured out on yourself?

[Amanda 11:53]  Kind of like figured [it] on myself. And also I think that I did have a chat now with, I, I, I'm not sure, sure. How should I term it more like a therapist as well. I mean, wellness therapy letter, so the (inaudible), you know, how, how do I manage? It's not easy to, to be honest, it's not this kind of, from the post pandemic era. Yeah. And all the demands as well. Yeah. 

[Qin En 12:14] 

Correct. Correct. Correct. And you mentioned [the] post pandemic, right? So talk to me a bit more about how the pandemic season was for your family when everyone was at home. And I think there was a time when childcare centers were closed. Right. So what was it like? 

[Amanda 12:27]

Yeah. So when that hit, my youngest was less than a year old. My oldest was about five years old. It was impossible for both children to be at home. And for me and my husband to be at home to take care of them. That would mean that either I do not work completely to care for them. So, and plus we don't have a helper, so yeah, so we took a very drastic decision, which my husband was not agreeable [with me], but I have no choice but to force it. We speak. So me and my youngest son went to my mom's place, him and his, my older son went to my husband's, my husband's place. I think it's quite drastic because no parents will wanna do this. No parents wanna separate and stay separately during a pandemic, but that really falls upon us. 

[Qin En 13:11] 

Yeah. Wow. Wow. That must have been really quite a challenge. And plus, you know, movements were restricted. It's not like you guys would go out for a meal cause it just didn't ha, didn't happen looking back at the time, but that's one thing that you, you took away, you learned from this whole experience.

[Amanda 13:28] 

The pandemic experience? 

[Qin En 13:30] 

Yeah. 

[Amanda 13:32] 

I guess nothing can prepare you to be honest for this kind of pandemic, this kind of work arrangement. Staying resilient and thinking of how you resolve it. And also at the same time, you know, be brave to ask for help. If there is the need to, especially for parents, you know, you might feel that I don't really need help, but to be honest, to raise the family really takes a village. And during that pandemic, I was, I'm also very thankful for both our parents, which are their grandparents who actually stepped in to help support us.

Otherwise, what really cannot be done and we really cannot be able to deliver. 

[Qin En 14:03]

Yeah. Yeah. And really pulling together that support network as in when you need that's, that's so incredibly helpful and it's so necessary. Right. I think that's something you'll be appreciative of. Now let's talk a bit also about the workplace during, I would say post pandemic times in recent times, right? How, how is Workato also supporting you and your family to, to kind of maintain that kind of work-life integration balance?

[Amanda 14:26] 

Okay. So how we do it here is that we are still on the remote-first work arrangement. So, and, and [at] the same time, we are allowed to come back to [the] office as well. So how we arrange it is such a way that I will let my team know, and also I will put on my calendar that I'll be in office typically on Mondays and Thursdays. So if there are any requirements to meet up with me, those will be on Mondays and Thursdays. Yeah. And, and, and I also will not typically block out a schedule on my Calendar on a no meeting time because I will need to travel back home or when should my day end as well. Cuz I need to pick up my child arrangement. So I'm actually open, I will tell them up front, like if let's say a meeting is going to overrun, I'll just say, Hey, I need to go. I need to pick up my kid. Yeah. So, this kind of arrangement has been quite helpful for us as parents. Yeah. And studying early after they drop off after I drop them off, also helped as well. Yeah. Mm.

[Qin En 15:25]   

Got it. Got it. Got it. Now, I guess also in terms of mentorship and support network, where are your mentors, and your, I guess from a professional setting, where do your mentors come from? And what are maybe one or two interesting things that you have learned from them to date?

[Amanda 15:40]  

Mentors. I don't really subscribe to that. Yeah, but I think in my previous workplace, I do look up [to] a couple of colleagues, especially my, my previous ex-boss because she has been very kind, very generous in her time to really invest in us. And, you know, she always makes it a point that she would check in with us before anything, before starting the meeting.

So that helps to ease our mind and burden, cause she's a very seasoned professional and, and she's really looking out for me, she's looking out for my ex colleagues as well, so I'm very thankful. So when I have challenges and issues I could actually easily go back to her to talk to her about it. Yeah.

[Qin En 16:27]  

That's wonderful. And I also, I guess, as you grow in your career as, probably you also get more experience as a parent, I'm sure they will be younger, newer parents who come to you for advice. What is one piece of, oh, you can always do one on one, but as well, what is some advice that you would give to, to, to them, to working moms? Let's make that a bit more specific.

[Amanda 16:49]  

Okay. I guess, the working moms, just chill. Each child has their own quirks, their own behaviors. During my whole seven years of parenthood journey, I realized that what works for this season, may not work for the next season. Or may I mention the season?

Maybe it's about the year, the month. Okay. Yeah. And, what works for one child doesn't work for another child. So be open to explore, be open to see (inaudible) I really tried for a period of time, whether this particular method works. 

[Qin En 17:28]   

Well, Amanda, this is a really interesting and insightful conversation. Thank you so much for opening up, and being so open to share about this. If some of our audience would like to connect with you, how can they best do so? 

[Amanda 17:38]  

You could actually try [to] connect with me via LinkedIn. I'm actually quite responsive there. So hope to, we [are] able to connect them with more like men, parents as well in the tech industry. Yeah. 

[Qin En 17:49]   

Wonderful. We'll drop that link to your profile in the show notes. Well, thank you so much, Amanda. And, I really appreciate you taking time off for this. 

[Amanda 17:56]  

Thank you so much, Qin En. Thank you.

[Qin En 18:02]

Thanks for listening to the Parents In Tech podcast. With me,  your host, Qin En. We hope you were inspired how to raise kids and build companies. To catch up on earlier episodes or stay updated with upcoming ones, head over to www.parents.fm to join our community of Parents In Tech. There, you can also drop me a question, idea, feedback or suggestion. Once again, the website it's www.parents.fm. That's all for this episode, folks. See you next time.