From Work to Home Ep 1: Coping with Pandemic Changes, Breaking Parenting Stereotypes, and Taking a Break with Sandeep Nair

[00:45] Introducing the guest, Sandeep Nair 

[1:57] The Challenges of parenting during COVID

[3:36] Work adjustments and finding time boundaries 

[6:01] How Stripe communicates openly and honestly 

[7:03] What does a supportive workplace look like? 

[8:42] Planning work travels and home responsibilities 

[10:11] Rejecting parenting stereotypes 

[12:15] A healthy mix of disciplining and giving a voice to kids 

[13:17] Parenting tips and asking for help 

[15:05] Self-care as a parent 

[18:44] Be kind to yourself and be kind to others. 

[18:57] Connect with Sandeep

TRANSCRIPTION

[Qin En 00:00] 

Hi, I am Qin En, and this is the Parents in Tech Podcast. In this special collaboration CV switch, strike the financial infrastructure platform for businesses I speak with parents at Stripe on how they create work, life integration and balance their career ambitions with family as inspirations. 

In this episode, I speak with Sandy, from Stripes, customer success and payment optimization APAC team. Sandy is father to three children, a daughter, age five, and a pair of twins, age two.

Hey, Sandy, welcome to the Parents in Tech show to begin with, could you tell us a bit more about your family?

[Sandeep Nair 00:51]

Sure. So I'm a parent to three kids. [I] have [a] daughter who is almost five in a couple weeks we're in the middle of planning her first non-COVID birthday. Twin boys, two years as of a couple of months ago.

[Qin En 1:05] 

Wow. Wonderful. Okay. So three young children. What is it like to be a parent with three young children and twins? So maybe let's start with that. I wanted to find out, was that a surprise? How did you feel when you learned that you were gonna have twins?

[Sandeep Nair 01:20] 

I don't think I've gotten over the surprise even now. It's been two years and maybe we found out maybe the second month. So it's been a, we don't have twins in the direct family. There are some in the extended family, but this was totally unexpected. So the doctor was just going to the scan and she's like, oh, look, there's an air bubble. Then here's a baby.

There's a heartbeat, this air bubble. It has heartbeats. It was just stunned in the silence and the funny thing is before we went, it was twins, there's no way it is gonna happen.

[Qin En 1:57] 

Wow. That's beautiful. Now I'm curious, right? So from being a parent together with a wife of one child to three, like tell me how the transition was like, cause it used to be two to one, the ratio, and now it's not even a one to one kind of ratio. So talk to me a bit more about the challenges ever since. The past two years.

[Sandeep Nair 02:16] 

It's been nuts to be very straightforward when it was just our daughter, it was my wife and I [who] were both working. We have our helper at home, so three of us and then pre COVID. So every three months, four months we'd have parents visiting our parents live overseas. So it would be a good ratio of even like four or even five to one.

So very easy life now that I think back at it, then having these twins in the middle of COVID April 2020 with my wife, me and our helper, and three kids, it's been quite a journey. I think it's just [that] the quantum of work has just gone up. One thing of like dealing with one kid in one diaper with, oh, this kid needs a diaper.

Oh no, that one's thrown up wait, this one's like screaming about wanting to frozen at this point. It's a life crisis. If she doesn't get it, we're all gonna be in trouble. So this is like crisis management, which is quite fun. It teaches you a lot of and to be honest, like, I don't think I was ever, I never realized how angry I could get until I had this I was like, give me a break. Most of the time I keep it under control. Kids are all safe and fine.

[Qin En 3:15] 

Wonderful. Okay. So I really got the, bring us back to when COVID just struck when your twins were born and of course for you at work, right adjusting to the whole new normal, like, tell me what was it like then? And what were some of the challenges that you had to overcome?

[Sandeep Nair 03:36]

Absolutely great question. We were figuring out a bunch of things as all of us as working professionals or even companies. What does working remote mean? I mean, it's okay to work from home one day, two weeks, maybe, but see it as forever or for the most immediate future. We're trying to figure that. It was trying to find time and being like, okay, this is work time.

Even though I have opened the door and go out it's, I'm in my, you know, sort home time making that distinction and just getting used to that sort of mental state was really something to overcome but once that clicked got a lot easier and the other part is also just communicating within the company.

People just see you on zoom, they see your face. They don't see like the diaper changing and the crying and all that's happening. The other part is you don't these non conversations on zoom. Get on zoom you're like, Hey, let's talk about this agenda item. You don't talk where you say your day, oh, twins are born.

We're going through that now that didn't happen. So it took a while, but then once more open communicating about those things.

[Qin En 4:36] 

Wow so maybe I got to push and ask this, right. What was one particularly stressful moment and what is your takeaway? Looking back 2020 hindsight, right? It's always what they say.

[Sandeep Nair 4:48] 

There was one very stressful the sort of, I think around seven month mark, when the twins were around that time or six month or six, seven months, we basically cumulatively you haven't slept well and we hadn't like put enough effort into sleep training the twins and there was one point we were just like, oh my God, we're gonna lose it cause parents coming in, just the three, my wife and I, and our helper and the nights were always done by myself and my wife and still are. So we just came to a point where we're like, you know what? We need to prioritize getting our, our sleep us being, if you don't do self care, that sounds really cliche, but if you're not well and sort of, you can't really perform a gym it's, you know, sports or work but also parented. 

So we just said, OK, how do we solve the problem? Get the kids sleep trained. We sleep better. We perform better as parents. So I think that was sort of quite fresh in my mind, even now.

[Qin En 05:37]

That's wonderful. Okay. So I'm gonna delve back a little bit more, right. So I understand that you, Joyce strike 2018. Where were you and your family then had you already welcomed your daughter into the war at that stage?

[Sandeep Nair 05:49]

Yes. Okay. My daughter was born in 2017, so she was about a year and a half old when I joined Stripe.

[Qin En 05:54] 

Got it and you know, there's this a dodge of changing jobs and changes at home and having to balance those.

I know it's quite a while back, but maybe talk me through what was going through your mind when you were considering joining Stripe. Were there concerns about, oh, you know, I have a young family and there's a lot of changes. What was it like back then?

[Sandeep Nair 06:12] 

Just being a parent and that's always on top of mind, like saying that you're not just a professional that's interviewing, but when you do join, you have this whole sort of life around you that you can't that's there.

You can't ask a kid not to trouble you or ask a kid to take themselves to school when they're, you know, a year and a half but what I really was amazed by is the hiring manager at that time was very open. So she herself had just gone, had a child as well and so she'd gone through this. Without any prompting.

She was just like, Hey, we're really supportive. A bunch of us Stripe was much smaller in Singapore at that time, but totally unprompted like we, we've got a bunch of us have kids we're really supportive of that. We think about folks in long term and quite flexible. And to be honest, it's been my experience with Stripe and that just sort of like from that, that was the first conversation it's been that consistent.

[Qin En 06:57]

 Okay. So I'm gonna double click supportive. Tell me what does supportive look like and what you appreciate?

[Sandeep Nair 07:03] I think it's making that room for you to be sort of bring, Hmm. I don't wanna use the word, bring your whole stuff to work cause that has different parts and it can get complicated. But for me, just being able to say, Hey guys, 8:30 in the morning is a bit difficult for me to get on a call I'm much more comfortable at 9 or 9:30, cuz I need to drop my kids off. Just having that understanding of putting it on your calendar and people being like, yeah, for sure.

No, one's gonna bother you before 8:30 or 9:30 no, one's gonna bother you at, after 4:30 because you need to go do and just being there right and understanding, okay, this is a tough week my kids, all three of them have some sort of food poisoning some deep slack says away and that's fine I don't feel like I am pressured to come online.

If anything, I feel like I'm pressured to stay away and that's the positive sort of supportive part of spread.

[Qin En 07:51] 

Wow. Okay. That's really, really powerful. Right. Just knowing that you can step away from work without any feeling of guilt or anxiety. I think that in itself is ably powerful and also of course, I guess at the points on deeper, tell me a bit more about your work travels and how is it like to balance those right. With a young family before COVID?

[Sandeep Nair 08:10] 

It was a little bit simpler because at that time I only had one daughter, but there was, there was again, flexibility. So unless there was like a major issue, I would work with my colleagues to say, okay, this week works for me and obviously that would depend on my wife's availability and time around that.

I'm excited to see what that looks like moving on. Now, Matt, I don't know where we are trying to figure out one work trip soon. It's a lot more micro plan. Exactly. Which day is my wife available? Can I fly out on those days and come back? So it's gonna be interesting how that plays out. So I'll let you know in a couple of weeks how that goes but.

[Qin En 08:42]

 Sure and I realize a big part about parenting it's you start to up a lot more meticulous and intentional when it comes to planning. Right and I think, especially for you, given that now you have three young children that really comes into the picture. So when it comes to thinking about the meticulous planning of the parental responsibilities and workload, what does it look like back at home?

[Sandeep Nair 09:02]

So when my parents visited, they came over a couple of months ago, first time in two and a half years, they were quite amazed because I'm the younger kids and so they've always treated me as a baby. I'm like, oh yeah, it's fine. Not very organized, all that and they saw me, they were quite amazed and like almost they were taken back by how regimented things are because we have to be right. We need to make sure they're up at seven by 7:45 or 8 they're out the door. They're picked up by about 5:00, by 6, shower, 7 sleep.

Like it was just, it has to be that way and as being grandparents, they were like trying to like, oh no, let her play a little bit more. Maybe they can sleep in our beds and I'm like, no, not happening. We spend months fixing this, do not mess it up, but you're right. It just becomes a lot more meticulous, even workwise. I feel like earlier, if things took longer, you were willing, you're sort of like, okay, I'll just stay another four hours at work and finish this.

That no longer is an option. You have like much [harder] deadlines to try to put things, sort of finish things up quicker, try to prioritize a lot more ruthlessly in some ways, sort of still get the important things done at work while always of course, keeping in mind with kids as well so.

[Qin En 10:11]

Wonderful. That clarity that you have that you carry. I think that's so valuable and I think, the perks of being a parent, you know, something, one thing that stands out to me is also how actively you're involved in sharing a workload together with your wife. I'm curious, what is one stereotype or status quo about debt that you reject?

[Sandeep Nair 10:30] 

That's a tough question. So being Asian, you know, having a traditional family growing up, it was always, my dad's a breadwinner. My mom took care of the household and I remember like, it's a scene as a negative stereotype. Like dads don't help out at home, like in that kinda context but now I have a lot more empathy because it's a team effort.

It's not like one is more important than the other breadwinning is very important. So it is like making sure the kids are fine. Go to school, do their homework. There's food on the table. I dunno if I'm rejecting it, but I kinda like rethinking how I, myself viewed the role of a dad or the traditional breadwinner or in that kinda relationship.

Right. I feel like they're both important and you just need to, in my case, we're both working, so we both have to figure out the work, the front together so I am a terrible cook and I mean, yeah and so my wife doesn't eat my cooking and neither do my kids, except unless when I'm barbecuing. So food, anything that's cooking-related is my wife's domain, but I am very good at like being on top of bills and like doing all those things.

So that's on my plate. Unfortunately, I am pretty okay with cleaning dishes, so that also falls into my plate. So it kind of, we kind of figure out what are the things where we can sort of support each other and bring that to the table.

[Qin En 11:43] 

Wonderful. I really liked how that happens and so I'm curious also on the topic of discipline, which I guess would be more relevant to your elder daughter. How does discipline look back at home?

[Sandeep Nair 11:54] 

Doesn't exist well, my daughter is turning five, but I think she's 15 and going in like this teenage rebellious mode, anything, the first response is no, or it's like negotiation. So I think she's gonna do really well in sales or law at some point. I think it's a tough question.

Traditionally, when you think about discipline or the way I thought about it, If you say something, the kid does exactly that draws a line and the kid doesn't move beyond that line. Say, study, don't watch TV. They listen to it. At least that's how I had pictured it, but I don't think I see it anymore as that sort of like more blurred now.

Cause you wanna teach them long term skills, like, okay, you want them to be independent? You want them to make their own decisions? So that discipline part becomes a lot more sort of blurred. It's not necessarily that I have all the answers either and also when you're having [sleep] and all these things, your reaction to things are not exactly what you would want them to be, or the kinda modeling that you wanna provide for them either.

Right. It's a lot more nuanced concept for me now than it was probably earlier when I thought about it.

[Qin En 12:59] 

You probably really [have a] thoughtful answer Sandy but I really like that. So I'm gonna ask, so sorry, where do you get your source of parenting advice, tips, knowledge from, is it on the internet books, mentors, your own family? Yeah. Tell me where you learn parenting so to speak. 

[Sandeep Nair 13:17]

 I think I listen to a bunch of podcasts on one one now, there have been some interesting ones that have sort of pointed out, not just on parenting, but also like relationship cause I think that's another part I think the equation that you have or the relationship that the two partners come together or the partners come together for raising kids becomes really important.

So I think I've tried to invest a lot more on that front and then I think that pays dividends on taking care of the kids part and in terms of like.

[Qin En 13:42]

 I'm gonna put you on the spot, what podcast would you recommend to us?

[Sandeep Nair 13:45]

Oh boy. If you can remember. So, do you remember Freakonomics the book?

[Qin En 13:49]

 Yes.

[Sandeep Nair 13:50]

Even Dubner I think can't remember the episode, but there was an episode about parenting tips that was really interesting and like this person, like did data driven sort of experiments on does feeding from the bottle, make a child, a baby, forget the nipple, for example, which was like a huge deal in our daughter was born that was like top of mind so going through a lot of those things, what I realize is you don't need to be so sort of cut and dry about things.

Kids are very babies and children are resilient. So don't hold yourself to like these very high, random standards that may be passed down, or maybe from your own sort of expectations. Just be a little bit more fluid and kind to yourself and your partner.

[Qin En 14:28] I really like that, Sandy, the idea that, and I feel like this is also sometimes a bit more Asian, right?

Where we're brought [up] in an environment where we have very high standards. Our parents probably also many of our parents have set high standards for ourselves, but I do see that there's that shift that's changing, right? There's this idea where it's not just about us living our dreams on our children, but also understanding and giving them a voice.

So really, really glad to hear that's what you're doing. Looking back at the past five years of being a parent, what is perhaps one thing that you would do differently? And one thing you would do the same differently.

[Sandeep Nair 15:05]

I think I kind of maybe touched upon in the last question, but being little less stressed, I say this knowing full well that if somebody said this to me, I would have said what you dunno what you're talking about but when our daughter was born in like the first two years, every time she coughed or had a slight fever, we'd rush her to the specialist, be quite like concerned and worried about things kids are okay. Kids generally survive; they're a product of a few, many millions, if not billions, of years of evolution.

They'll be fine. So try to remember that, not to like take things too much to heart, and even in terms of a discipline perspective, it's not, you know, one event isn't going to change things, right? If she's just trying to take a step back and being less focused on just that outcome a little bit more flexible would be something that I think I would change. When my first, my daughter was first born with our twins, we totally changed it. So now they're like, oh, 39 degrees fever. That's OK! Paracetamol oh, so it's 40. OK. Put him in water for 15. He'll be fine. So you kinda learn over, over experience. What would I do the same? I've been really fortunate with my partner.

[Sandeep Nair 16:10] 

She's amazing. I'm fortunate to have a very good equation where we try to come to problems and solve them together and I think that's something that I would definitely care about now and will care about in the future. Just investing in that, trying to remember that we're a team and like being kind right cause both of you have just become a parent. This is a role that neither of you have any clue about God. It is like two, three kg thing that is, I dunno, doing whatever it does and you haven't slept in days, weeks, and months. So just being like, yeah, sleep is talking crazy stuff, but it's okay. I'm not gonna call him out.

I'm just gonna let him relax a little bit and then [come] out to like points where, okay. You know what, maybe time to intervene, let her take a break. I'll step in like, those kinds of things are what have been sort of helpful for me.

[Qin En 16:54] 

Yeah. Wow. I think that's truly words of wisdom that you're sharing and I can only say that [it’s] an effect of you being a parent, not just to one child, but to developable to three. Right? The wisdom that comes along with that. That's [what] I think tomorrow, and this is a fun question I like to ask tomorrow. Let's say I gave you a billboard that all the parents in the world see, what are you gonna write on the billboard?

[Sandeep Nair 17:18]

 It probably will be a digital one. So big billboard saying to all, oh man. Um, Oh, man. That is a lot of power .

[Qin En 17:29]

Yep, yep. Yep. 

[Sandeep Nair 17:31]

 I would say keep calm and carry on probably a picture or two of beer next to it and I see this with my parents, right? When I was a kid, they're my parents, but now I hear them. They're concerned, not only about their kids, my sister and I, but also my sister's kids who are also older and my kids are like, once you're a parent, once you cross that threshold, there's no end to it. So take a break, relax. It's a long, long journey. So try to have fun and I mean, I need to remember that more often than I [do].

[Qin En 17:57] 

So it's such a marathon, but I think that's so true. Yeah. Many years ahead of us and we need to really pace ourselves and not kill ourselves over for the smallest of things.

Beautiful conversation we had Sandy just to wrap up for today. Now I gave you the earlier question. [It] was about billboards to everyone. Now let's bring it back home. If you're gonna write a book for your children, consolidating all the lessons and whatever you wanna say to them, what do you think is gonna be in their book?

[Sandeep Nair 18:26] 

Man, great question one. If I were to pass it on and like my biggest thing is that I really truly love them and also like that all the quirky things that they do, I think it's just like fascinating, just watching these things, like [doing] the things they do and I'm just like, where does this come from? It just makes you wonder [about] a lot of things.

The most important part is be kind to yourself and be kind to others and we're fortunate that we have siblings. We have family, but friends, family, et cetera, cherish the people around you because journey's long and company makes the best of it.

[Qin En 18:57]

That's golden. That's beautiful. Well, Sandy, thank you so much for joining me on the show today. If some of the audience would like to connect with you, how can they best do so?

[Sandeep Nair 19:05]

For sure, I'm on LinkedIn. Please find me and reach out. Happy to chat.

[Qin En 19:09]

Sure we'll include your LinkedIn profile in the show notes. Sandy, thank you so much once again, for joining on the show, such a joy to speak with you.

[Sandeep Nair 19:16] 

Likewise again, thank you so much.

[Qin En 19:22]

Thanks for listening to the Parents in Tech Podcast, with me, your host Qin En. We hope you were inspired on how to raise kids and build companies to catch up on earlier episodes or stay updated with upcoming ones, head over to www.parents.fm. To join a community of parents in tech. There, you can also drop me a question, idea, feedback or suggestion once again, the website it's www.parents.fm.

That's all for this episode, folks. See you next time.